📢 Our seventh podcast 🎙/article is devoted to Inclusion. The “Real Estate Better” is our series featured by PropTech Slovakia and its partners from Slovakia and abroad. Each episode is devoted to actual real estate challenges, while we share tips, solutions and experiences on how to solve them. This episode was focused on challenge of : 🔦 “More S in ESG & how Inclusion Boosts Business”.
Some topics are closer to our hearts. Especially if we feel more human with them. More of us feel the topic of inclusion is exactly the one.
We were speaking with my co-host Martin Stohl from Slovak Green Building Council with our guests Tamas Méri and Miguel Chaparro from Access4you.
We at PropTech Slovakia and FM Institute Slovakia often have missed „S“ solutions in ESG strategies. This has been not the case just in Slovakia but elswhere in the world as well.
Just a couple of years ago, founders of Access4you came with very nice vision of change to a much more inclusive society that includes the biggest minority of people with various forms of permanent or temporal disabilities
(I had not notion how big is this minority, but it counts around 20 % of global population = 1/5).
Now Access4you seems to become the most elaborated and inspirational certification and information system with track-record of more than 1000 assessed locations/projects in 23 EU countries.
We spoke about:
👉 Why this company was created? (Story of one of the co-founders)
👉 Who and How many people deserve special attention of Real Estate sector?
👉 What are the products Access4you can offer to help these people as well as Real Estate to be more inclusive and more successful in business?
Access4you is an international certification mark that provides detailed and reliable information about the accessibility of the built environment. It is good for society and brings benefits for business.
Thus Access4you does not only help people living with a disability to live a more confident life but also benefits property owners and companies, in addition to this, achieving their business and ESG goals with a certified S data.
You can view the whole recordings here: https://lnkd.in/eMpRKsHM
For better orientation here are the Chapters
0:17 Intro of the Webinar
3:33 Introduction of Tamáš
5:23 Introduction of Miguel
7:00 Introduction of Martin
11:45 How big is the related community?
18:30 What kind of facilities, spaces or events need to be accessible?
23:25 Accessibility in New European Sustainability Reporting Standards
26:31 Drivers of the “S” in ESG and green building certifications
31:58 Source of information on accessibility of buildings
38:40 How many projects are accredited by Access4you® so far?
40:25 Comparison with the green building certification designing process how to achieve the wished ranking
45:30 How long does the certification with Access4you® take compared to BREEAM/LEED?
47:46 Recognition of Access4you® by GRESB
50:28 Integration with ESG schemes and Green Building certificates
54:00 How long does it take to became accredited professional of Access4you® and related benefits
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Complete Transcription
(Dear visitor, this is complete transcription of our webinar and podcast made by the AI “Whisper”. Whisper is very good, but not perfect and we dared to make just a very quick human supervision of its work. Anyway, if you find some gaps, errors, etc. do not let them disturb you. You can freely contact us or any of our podcast participants via LI profiles, should you wish corrections or further explanations)
Milan (0:17 Intro of the Webinar)
Good morning, everyone. It’s a pleasure to have you all here. This is Real Estate Better. This is our webinar or podcast series that we put together with our partners. Our partners, I mean partners of PropTech Slovakia. And these partners are from Slovakia or from abroad. And what we are doing and speaking about during these webinars and podcasts is we are looking for finding solutions for actual real estate challenges. And we share tips, solutions, experiences with finding ways how to cope with them.
Challenge for this webinar is more S in ESG and how inclusion can boost business.
So it’s a really great pleasure that with me here is Martin Stoll who is a very deep in this ESG topic for more than 10 years. He’s architect, professional. He’s representing Slovak Green Building Council. And he’s very deep in this topic. He will be my co-moderator. He’ll place a couple of questions. I will leave you words in a while. Our host today and it’s my pleasure to welcome Tamás Meri who is one of the co-founders of company Access4you. And he’s actually Chief Business Development Officer and Miguel Chaparro who is a Business Development Manager. And it’s really good because today we will not speak just about the S but also about the business, about the G = Governance. And that’s why two people with focus on business development are really welcome.
What is Access4you? Access4you is an international certification mark that provides detailed and reliable information about the accessibility of the built environment. What does it mean? It is good for society and benefit for business. Meaning, it does not only help people living with a disability to live a more confident life but also benefits property owners and companies, in addition to this, achieving their business and ESG goals with a certified S data. These companies get also an idea of how barrier-free their locations are and how their accessibility can be improved for each stakeholder group. This is more like a definition but now in a human speech let me leave words to Tamás. What does it mean? And if you want anything to add to your introduction, please, it’s very welcome.
Tamás (3:33 Introduction of Tamáš)
Thank you very much. Thank you for the stage and thank you for the invitation. First of all it’s a great idea what you are doing. I appreciate it very much and I’m happy that we can share this topic with the audience. I’m Tamás Méri, the co-founder actually an entrepreneur in Hungary over 30 years and also a property professional for more than 25 years as developer and asset manager and in different positions also. And my story or our story in the Access4you International started five years ago when I started to let’s say consult my good friend who is a wheelchair user and he had a business idea and concept and he started to share this idea with me and it happened in 2019. Frankly saying I was that time like I didn’t know anything about these people at all and I faced a shocking statistic and I like to share our presentation sharing this statistic that in an average population the proportion of the disabled people is something like 15-16 percent. How is it possible? I don’t see them at all and the answer is that part of the disability is not visible because you cannot realize that someone has a hearing impairment.
Milan
Tamás, we will come to that. I would like to give it more space because this is really really important that we will come to this. I just want to give floor to Miguel to short introduction if he can say something about him and then to Martin and we’ll go straight to the topic.
Tamás
No problem. Thank you.
Miguel (5:23 Introduction of Miguel)
Thank you so much, Milan. Yeah definitely. So what I would have to add to this is that I joined Access4U because I truly believe in the mission. I think it’s something that is very needed in these times. I mean there’s a lot of solutions for the “E” aspect but there’s not too many solutions for the social aspect and we have seen more and more that there is you know more mental pressures and you know public pressure to put more emphasis in accessibility and inclusion and that’s why now coming back to this I you know I fell in love with the mission. I personally myself I have a two-year-old kid. And then when I joined Access4U I was truly shocked by the numbers you know the number that Tamash mentioned and I noticed that these numbers actually extend way more than only 15 percent because accessibility it’s a matter of not only to people with disabilities but people with mobility problems, the elderly, the people with temporary disabilities and people with strollers and I fell into that category. I definitely can’t relate to this because I have suffered these consequences myself and so. Yeah, that’s a little bit about me. Thank you, Milan.
Milan
Thank you very much. Martin, could you please tell us more about your background and why this topic is interesting for you?
Martin (7:00 Introduction of Martin)
Sure, first of all I’m really happy that we have this opportunity to discuss this topic I think it’s very important. Where I have started basically I started working in Canada by back in 1999 as an architect and it was a part of the initiation process for us architect designers that basically are both requested from us to sit on a wheelchair and spend the whole day you know on the wheelchair just to experience what’s going on and how it is in in real life when you cannot properly open the door or go to the toilet go to whatever you need to do around the building so this was all the first time that I really realized that it’s not enough to have some mandatory requirements by law or local authorities but you need to really understand what’s going on and this ever since this moment was coming through my professional life so I moved to Slovakia after 11 years in Canada. And the situation here is slightly improving but it’s still very significantly undernourished. Let’s call it that way I was comparing the standards what we have here in Slovakia We have five pages dedicated to specific requirements for buildings for example which is absolutely inadequate compared to let’s say DEAN requirements in Germany or ADA requirements or in the United States. So this is one side the other side is that I was looking at some statistics here in Slovakia we have 870 000 people with some kind of disability and this is a country of five and a half million you know. So, it represents more than those 15 percent that we discussed it’s 18 percent and another statistics is that 80 percent out of this number of disabled are in the age of working age so these are normally active people and what stuck in my mind is also the old-fashioned term that was used for these people they call them very nasty word “invalid” here which means that basically they are of no value to the society and these disabled people I think our purpose is also to enable them to not be disabled but be fully functional I much rather prefer the term handicapped. So that’s one package of people but of course we need to discuss the rest of all the groups that need to be addressed and those are people who also need special attention of whether it’s seniors, whether it’s pregnant women, whether it’s parents with strollers, small kids, etc. So it’s a huge topic. I was involved in this topic with big developer companies for the last 15 years here in Slovakia and I have also prepared a manual which is like a practical guide for our architects to design properly. But still, I’m really welcoming that there is initiative like access for you so I’m very interested also to hear more about it even though I checked out your website and we had the opportunity to discuss all this. I think it was one year ago or a little bit longer than that so that’s the introduction from me. Thank you!
Milan
It’s excellent. Thank you! Martin, if you have any question, please, ask. We have a couple of questions I think that there will be overlap with what you want to ask but if there is anything you would like to ask on top of that, please, ask. First of all, thank you for your introduction. It’s very nice to have you here. Tamás already touched this topic. It’s the: What group of people are we talking about?, and: How is it related to the overall community? Could you, please, tell us more, Tamas now?
Tamáš (11:45 How big is the related community?)
Yes, I have the pleasure and if I may to follow the stats of Martin here. Another additional statistic that you mentioned Martin that the majority of these people in a working age. It’s also very important to know and it’s an important statistic that 80 percent of these people who are in this kind of change status or in this special status they landed there between an age of 18 and 64. What does it mean for us? For them? That majority of these people they know that how was their life before. It was a complete life. A healthy life. A complete life they and they try to maintain keep working, keep entertaining, keep shopping, doing the same as before. And this is a natural need for their side, but they are in a different situation. And there is an additional important aspect, let’s say.
I heard somewhere there are two models, let’s say. One is the um the has model and the other one is the social model. The has model says that the handicapped people himself or herself is not able to access, is not able to communicate. But the social model says that our environment is not inclusive. So, basically we are not helping them or the environment doesn’t help them to access or to communicate or to interfere our life, which is a completely different attitude. Because otherwise that this has model or they are taking on themselves. Then they really feel uncomfortable that I’m not able to manage to do something. And this this is very bad because they have that very sad feeling that I’m not okay. But this is not the fact. Not they are not okay. The world is not okay around them. And this is a huge difference.
So, I like to start presentations to play a bit with the audience that okay every sixth of the audience should stand up and when we counted 20 persons in the audience then okay. Who has registered the disability or something should stay out. One-two persons max with some hearing impairments or something. So, they are underrepresented in our everyday life. And actually, Balázs, my partner the founder, a wheelchair user, he realized that actually this underrepresentation is also based on three facts actually. And one fact is that the build environment is not accessible. But on the other side, there is no information about the accessibility features of the build environment. And if they are, exist, they are not precise, not trusted and not detailed. And why this is important? Because they – these people – they need to plan their everyday life. Or, once they leave their well-known surroundings, they need information accurate information to be able to plan because they are not adaptive. So, if I’m facing a closed door I am climbing through the window. This is me and you but a wheelchair user, they are they have a completely different opportunity. So, their skill capacity is different. Who we are speaking about? This was your questions. Actually, the registered 15 – 16 percent is people the wheelchair users with different kind of movement impairments, blinds or visual impairments, deaf or hearing impairments and the cognitive suffering, different cognitive problems like down syndromes or autism or any neurodiverse some problems. They are also our stakeholders group. So, we are working for all these and as Miguel very properly mentioned, our information, so the system, our answer, what we will explain later that what we created, this information is also useful and and valuable for the elderly people. Basically, they are suffering the same problems. And also for the parents with the baby strollers. So basically, we can speak even about one-third of the of the society.
And we can also add to that that these people are very often, the how to say, they are filtering the possibility of a bigger team. So a wedding, if the witness is a wheelchair user, the event hall must be accessible for him otherwise hundred people cannot join the wedding. So you can imagine that what we are speaking about is a crowd.
Milan
Exactly! Yesterday, when I was speaking about it, I realized that it is a snowball. Just this 15 or 30 percent that we define is a snowball of a much bigger team because it’s always part of the community and whatever you are planning, wedding or team building, the team must think about this and if it is not, the team is not complete. So,it’s really just the core of the snowball. The ball is much bigger.
Tamás
That’s correct and what we are also saying that if a building is designed or built based on the universal design this is not only good for the disabled people, people with special need, but it’s much better for everyone.
My personal case: I’m not in that age yet and I have not registered, but I don’t see properly actually. But a few years ago when I delivered Balász to a place for a negotiation I ran up from the garage and there was a glass door and I was running through the glass door. It was not broken but my head was almost broken. So basically, I’m, let’s say I’m okay. I’m not in any of the stakeholder groups, but I was running through because there was no signage on the door and there was a glass door there.
Milan
Anyone who is tired has some kind limited yeah in in cognitive perspective. Miguel, could you add, please, because I studied a bit and I know that the problem is big. Yeah? But what facilities are you preparing the certifications for? Is it just commercial real estate or just real estate or it’s something else as well?
Miguel (18:30 What kind of facilities, spaces or events need to be accessible?)
That’s a very good question. Yes. Definitely. Milan. Well, let’s go back a little bit. If we know the challenges, the ones that Tamás mentioned, that, the building environment is not accessible for everyone. There is none information and even though there is information, usually based on self-declaration- Right? It’s a problem that it’s related to people with disability or people with accessibility needs and it extends to the real estate market. Now, this is what the solution where we’re presenting. It’s for, you know, the commercial market, residential market and even events. Because accessibility as you know, accessibility rights should be in many different sectors. Not only for building environments accessibility, universal accessibility should be extended to as I mentioned before – events as well.
So, the solution that we present for these challenges that extends to people with disabilities and to the real estate market is a certification and we make sure we certify how accessible and inclusive these environments or events are for people with accessibility needs and it’s based on not only in international accessibility standards, but also it has been developed by people that have some sort of disability and rehabilitation practitioners and so on, so on. So, we and engineers, we involve a lot of people to develop this software that audits the environment – the building environment. And to actually start ticking the boxes, if it’s really accessible or not. Because we have to face the reality that our effort and support today, building owners, they want to say that they are accessible and they are not. This was the reality. And we have to truly do something about it. This is the mission of, unfortunately Balázs cannot be here, but this is exactly the mission of Tamás and Balázs that knew to really provide a true information about the accessibility of this.
So, that is why, and just to finish the answer, that is why our website is made for the end user. It’s made to provide reliable information for the end user – for people with accessibility needs and to show truly how accessible these buildings are. You can name it. So, answer to your question:
- It could be office buildings, shopping mall centres, restaurants, governmental entities, so on, so on. Pretty much everything because it’s related to accessibility and inclusion.
Tamás
… museums, theatres, sports facilities, hotels, restaurants. We are certifying 15 different real estate segments. In the comparing, let’s say with the BREEAM certificate, this is the news. So, our core certificate is the Access4you® Building, which is for the existing building and we have two extensions or two additional product or services what we are delivering:
- One is Access4you® Workplace. Because we know that this is very important for the employers. And we can later speak about the four target groups in the “S” chapter of the ESG that who it is good for. So, we are giving a certificate for the employer. This is the Access4you® Because within an office building the public area is that the principal is the landlord – the building owner – they are responsible for the public areas. But the lease area, the tenant is responsible for the accessibility, the furniture and everything so that this is a separate topic actually.
- And we have Access4you® Design because the developers are very often coming to us that we like what you do. I don’t have a ready building, but I would like to have as much as possible accessible building when it’s ready. So, please, help me in the design phase, during the planning that how can I reach that goal.
So, basically this is our three schemes, let’s say. But as I mentioned that we try to deliver that equal life for these people in every segment of life. So that’s why we are collecting the data for them from every segment of the life, from shopping, working, entertaining and whatever.
Milan (23:25 Accessibility in New European Sustainability Reporting Standards)
Thank you! Thank you for mentioning this new European sustainability standards (ESRS), because they were published just in this December and what’s surprising is that they’re bringing four “S” standards. And when I was firstly thinking of people with some form of disability, I thought that okay, this is the maybe the biggest minority. So “Affected communities” – this is standard for them. But then I realized: No! These are also “Employees”. These can be also “Users”. Yes? So, all four standards, actually, and “Suppliers”. Yeah? So, all four standards should reflect needs and possibilities that this this group of people can bring. So, it can have impact on all four “S” sustainability standards.
Miguel
If I may add something to that, like this truly, I mean we could just think that this doesn’t affect the real estate community. But it’s extremely related to tenants or building owners, developers, property management. It’s extremely related to them. I know there’s a lot of focus on the social aspect, but let’s take into consideration that the relations for the ESG reports are coming altogether. They’re not coming in separate sections for different, for separate years. They’re coming altogether. And if property owners, developers or everyone related to the real estate segment is just waiting, you know, to put out fires, I think that’s at least a huge mistake. We should prevent this with solutions that are focusing on bringing accessibility and inclusion. Accessible for everyone, right?
And I think in AccessibleEU which is the European commission for rights focusing on European accessibility and that is going to make sure that these regulations are going to take place into European countries, they stipulate that companies in the European union will have to report disability inclusion. This is that is going to take place ver-very soon. And we have to be even for, it’s shocking one of the things that is very-very shocking to me, again is to find out that the real estate segment you know property owners, even CEOs of big corporations, they are not aware of these things. Because they’re taking advice from different advisories and it’s just a mess. It’s complete chaos. No one truly knows what is coming our way. And we should pay attention to this. It’s very-very important.
Milan
Thank you!
Martin (26:31 Drivers of the “S” in ESG and green building certifications)
If I may even. Maybe if I can expand on what Miguel had said. Again, a view from a developer, commercial developer. There are two aspects which are in my opinion very important. Drivers these days now:
- We do the ESG reporting. We have started with this process as most of the big companies are doing and it’s not only the systems such as GRI and GRESB, which show basically are kind of a checklist for ESG (environmental social and governance) which include the requirements for the social which includes the inclusivity but it’s also the more stringent CSRD, which is lined with the EU taxonomy. So, we are pushed we are pushed by the EU legislation to report on whatever we are doing on “S” front and this is a very critical part of this “S” in the ESG as basically, you, milan, had put right in the name of this discussion.
- And the other aspect is so, especially our viewing of the market. Basically, the certifications such as BREEAM had been here for a long time. But now we’re working much more with the system such as WELL, which is looking at the indoor quality environment. And the idea behind it is to attract the quality employees and especially the younger generation. And we can safely say that all the physical handicaps have nothing to do with the intelligence or capabilities. So, these people are really in the high proportion highly skilled and if employers are looking for really the best on the market to have engaged as employees, they need to make provisions for these people to feel included, to feel comfortable and be part of this whole infrastructure in the building.
So, we are trying to integrate all these features and go even beyond that’s required by the legislation. That’s really too little. And the other discussion I’m speaking now from practice, because we discuss these topics quite a lot internally, so one of the very frequent questions is: How much does it cost? You know, we have a difference between the existing built buildings, where we need to adjust for accessibility. But for the new buildings the extra cost is minimal, when you implement and when you think ahead about these provisions. So even such things as wheelchair accessible toilets. They could be very well integrated with other functions. Let’s say changing bed or changing station for small children with other things. So, this could be done very easily that goes also for the enough space you know. You need to provide this 1.5 meter radius wherever possible so it could be integrated into design when we are thinking about very early.
So, I think we are now in some kind of a transition stage, where there is higher demand. Both push and pull for all these things. So, I think even your initiative Access4you®, I think, is coming in a very right time. Because for ourselves speaking again we need to create some kind of a competitive environment even between investors and developers that would be very healthy to all show that ,basically, who is providing better environments. And also, I think it’s our pride to provide buildings which are inclusive and which are really welcoming to anybody.
Tamás
Absolutely.
Milan
Thank you! Thank you, Martin. If I may come back a little bit. You already mentioned that you are providing some kind of certification and but it’s not only about the certification about a trademark Access4you®. It’s also about information system. And this has something with a in my view is bigger vision. Because we are always looking at the buildings as just one building, yeah? Does it have this, does it have that? But when we are planning for instance journey or looking for a flat or looking where I will work for, we are comparing more buildings and is there something that Access4you® offers also in this sphere like information system?
Tamás (31:58 Source of information on accessibility of buildings)
It’s a basically our product that is an information system. It is a software. Actually, we have two legs for that: One is for the users. For this huge group of disabled people, they need this accurate information. So, this is, let’s say the output of our activity. It’s – these data are available for them on our website. And we have a special mobile application for them. They can filter it on themselves. We are including hundreds of buildings and hundred thousands of information. Actually, just for the knowledge of the audience today we are in a position to raise at least thousand different questions regarding the accessibility of a building of course it’s depending on the segment. So, we are raising different questions. In a hotel like in a shopping mall or of course it can be spread but theoretically there are at least thousand different questions to be raised. So, the answers are organized accordingly. That according to the type of the disability the person can filter on himself. A wheelchair user is not interested what is relevant for a blind person. You understand. So, this is the output side.
But since we are delivering this information digitally or digitized, we also wanted to collect it digitized. So, basically, the data collection part of our activity. which is very important in the whole procedure that the data will be trustful for them. I mean for the users. If it is not based on self-reporting of the building owner. Why? Because prior we realized that this self-reporting creates a lot of misunderstandings. Because there was no common language between the building owners and the users. So, if a building owner spoke about access, the term “accessible” – it very often doesn’t mean the same what for the users mean. So basically, we had to create this common language.
There is a very fixed structure to collect objective data. And, actually it is done by our auditors. So, we are sending out professionals everywhere we are present on the markets either our staff or through different professional partners. We are collecting the data with the help of a software. So, we have our audit software in that we are raising the questions yes/ no answers or text answers. We are making photos with them a lot. And measurements. So, basically, this is the data collection.
And between the two we have the black box. Let’s say the smart part. The brain, which is analyzing this data. We have our, or let’s say private standard and this will be for sure for Martin will be an interesting question that, okay: What is the Access4you® standard? Because he also mentioned the local slovak standards, which, i think, is rather code than standard. Because the building codes are a bit lower level than the standards themselves. And also in the United States ADA is the standard or a DeckBehind and but they have also different building codes in the countries and cities and so on. So we have our private standard which is mainly linked in Europe to the ISO, to the European accessibility ISO. But it’s a bit different. So, it’s not covering everything. Our software for the users is based on usability of the building. So, we wanted to create hard criteria and a lot of nice to have features. But our ranking qualification and ranking system is based on the hard criteria. We say that for the wheelchair user there are 20-25 different aspects which has to be delivered by a building in order to be able to use for them. There are a bit less for the other stakeholder groups, but if a building is matching other hard criteria of a building then we say that okay. This is suitable, useful for them. And based on these things for the stakeholders group we are giving either a certified place or bronze, silver or gold ranking or qualification of a building as much stakeholder groups is served by them. And this is the final result.
And between the two after the analysis we are issuing an audit report which includes this final result. But it’s very important we are also adding improvement suggestions. It’s also just to reach a higher ranking. So, it is still based on our standards. But we have the building owners to improve the accessibility of the building. And it is, it was very interesting that finally we realized that this is an indirect impact of our activity. First of all, we wanted to deliver the information for the users. But because of this ranking a lot of companies told that bronze is not enough for me. I would like to have silver. And this motivated them to improve the buildings which is more than welcome. And, of course the carbon footprint of a prevention. So, a good design including everything is much cheaper than later on to modify the things.
But, frankly saying we see that in order to reach a higher ranking is very often is mainly for the other stakeholders. And it’s really cheap solutions. A device for example to deliver I mean to manage the communication between the deaf people it’s a, we see cheap solutions for that. So, basically this is what we are giving with the certification for the buildings. And everything is based in this complex
software actually. And what is very important in terms of ESG that ESG requires result based on data. And for PropTech and for your profession that actually it is really a challenge to deliver data in the social chapter. So, it is for that reason. It’s also fit very much into the ESG, let’s say thinking that this result it’s based on data. Real data.
Milan
So if I’m someone with a disability, I can find this information in the app that you mentioned and also on the website, yeah?
Tamás
Yeah, exactly.
Milan (38:40 – How many projects are accredited by Access4you® so far?)
And you have roughly how many projects behind?
Tamás
Actually, we started our activity in 2019 in Hungary. In Hungary we already audited over 800 different buildings from every segment as, let’s say, a pilot country. And now we extended our activity in other countries as well. Today, I think we have more than thousand buildings audited already. Of course, the need is to have as much as bigger database. As long as it is not so big our application is not properly working as a listing app. Because the aim would be that all these certified buildings are on the map. And wherever you are where you be and you are searching for a particular service which is accessible for you, you can do it via our app. But today rather the information is reaching the users either from the service provider side. So, for example media market in Hungary, they put our logo and the link on their website and they say that, okay: Once you are searching for a media mark shop, check it before through our website. Every single property has a property sheet in our database with all the accessible information. And on the top some photos about the building and the small marketing and the opening hours and things like that. So, basic information and so the users can check every single property separately. The data about them and basically this is the way how we are giving the information for them.
Milan
Okay Thank you very much!
Martin (40:25 Comparison with the green building certification designing process how to achieve the wished ranking)
If I may have a question to Tamás because I assume that basically you have a set of criteria based on which after checking by your auditors there will be a ranking point to the to the project. So, you can achieve one of those levels at the end. But my question is with regards to the designing process: If there is any support from your side or during the process when the project is being designed. Because those criteria it would be ideal this is actually the way we work for example with certification systems like BREEAM, LEED and WELL that they have let’s call it manuals. It’s very clear what you need to achieve in order to achieve the highest ranking. So, I was just wondering how does it work with Access4you®. If you have a similar system of criteria that we can follow and consult you.
Tamás (
Yeah. It’s a very important question actually. How we can, how often we are and how open the information is. It is interesting because as a startup and what we saw that our let’s say value or our know-how is this list or questionnaire and actually, our methodology that what we are speaking about. So, we were not so open to make every single of these questions transparent let’s say. So, basically if you have a client and we have in the design phase we are facing a good result in the existing building phase. So, this is a kind of preliminary work together. We make the same tour as in the reality on the side. But on the design, on the, I mean on the plans. We are making the same tour on the building. And basically, the assessment is exactly the same. But we are not making the photos but asking the same questions based on the plan aiming the good result in the existence when it will be ready. The criteria are today different. We are a bit less requirements towards an existing building than in the new construction let’s say. This is the term rather what LEED and BREEAM is using.
So, the new construction is we can require a bit more. It must deliver better accessibility in the end of the day. And actually, in our report we are sending back the plans with our remarks that there it has to be modified and changed. So, it is a kind of consultancy. If we have a client and we are giving this kind of design tools. So basically, we say that okay: What are the requirements? You have to take care of and unfortunately not everything is, how to say, designable. So part of the requirements is, let’s say, is just on the last day you put the device on the reception desk which never appears on a plan but we also give information about this not 3d but let’s say 2d pieces actually. We try to work together with the with Graphisoft on that that those criteria which we really consider very important to create 3d tools in the design software. But, it looks so that it’s really not feasible because after using the 3d design software even the electricians are working in 2d and they don’t deliver their plans in .dvg but in .pdf. So, it is not the status at the architects. So, it’s probably too much about nothing to create new 30-40 different pictograms for them to put in the 3d design. But let’s discuss it because if you as designer you consider that it would be a help for the architect to show additional things then we can go ahead further with that. But finally, these things today we also give a list of necessary requirements. And they can express it in a designer report that I will take care of it. And there is a kind of declaration that I will deliver, when the building will be ready. And our preliminary judgment based on the plans plus the declaration that okay. I don’t want to do that but I will deliver that and that. And this is the final result. And this is how we can help them. But we are giving a kind of design tool or a not a full manual but more or less that’s, yeah.
Milan (45:30 How long does the certification with Access4you® take compared to BREEAM/LEED?)
Tamás, Miguel, can you try to specify how long does it take? This process in average. An average project.
Miguel
Yes, definitely. In comparison to other certifications such as BREEAM, LEED or WELL that not only take a very long time, because of the complexity of the certification, but also takes time and project management from the clients as well. One of the things that we are very-very proud of to say is that our social certification is very easy to implement. It’s something that is by the audit. When we say an auditor to a certain place because of the software that we have, which is automatised.
Milan
And this is in case of any aspiration? If I want to be gold, silver or bronze it’s always the same?
Miguel
Yes. It’s relevant to the level of the certification. For example, it’s not going to take the same time to audit a restaurant than to audit a shopping mall centre. But still even shopping mall centre with more than 30 000 square meters, it can be audited in a day and the other reports it takes approximately the same time in less than a day. And as Tamás said we send it with the development suggestions.
Now this is excellent. I think it happened in Romania and one of our clients. They needed a really fast solution, because they needed to turn in to give the reports and they were short for a few points. And they were looking for a quick solution. A solution that was definitely reliable and not time consuming. And they audited their entire portfolio with us. So, this is one of the huge advantages that we can have.
(47:46 Recognition of Access4you® by GRESB)
Another thing that I would like to add, because Martin mentioned about some of the frameworks such as GRESB or GRI. These are, you’re right, we have been recognized as a design and or construction green build certification and an operational green build certification scheme under the GRESB framework which is very important. We can now validate and say that they can use us.
Milan
So, it means that this thanks to Access4you® in GRESB you can get another point. Yeah? Thanks to Access4you®.
Tamás
Today 0.3, but we are fighting to reach the 1 point. There is 0.3, 0.7.
Milan
Out of 100 it is significant.
Tamás
It is significant. Yeah. But we are recognized and to date our certification has a value of 0.3 point in GRESB but there is a chance that it will be increased now. And frankly saying it’s a secret but I can share because this will be published all over. We are trying to find an interface between LEED, BREEAM and WELL as well, because the area is a need in this every kind of service. So, they want to deal something with disability. And now there is a hard working between this organization and us to analyse our approach, our methodology and if it is proper then our scoring system will be converted into this. So probably we also added after the bronze, silver and gold ranking a scoring final result. Which is rather the approach of this professional certificates. And probably fits better this scoring into the ESG report. And a horizontal comparison is possible within the industry or a vertical within the time. So, if a landlord is improving the building then three years later it can be re-measured. That okay: How much did I read the scoring caps in this respect. And we try to create a conversion system within our scoring into these systems. So, we are working very much on that that we will be not only recognized by GRESB but also by LEED, BREEAM and WELL. And because they want to solve it and it’s much better that someone has solved it in a proper way. And they can say that okay: If you have Access4you® this and that and it has a value also for us. Let’s see.
Martin (50:28 Integration with ESG schemes and Green Building certificates)
It’s really-really good to hear and I’m really happy to hear this that there is this integration with the both ESG and BREEAM and WELL. One, maybe additional comment that I would have: We typically work with a triangle of certifications. As I have mentioned it’s sustainability, that means BREEAM and the indoor healthy environment that’s mostly WELL. And then we have the third one. And coincidentally we cooperate here with Milan on the smart building certification which includes for example a smartphone application with wayfinding so this may be used very well as a tool also for the handicapped people who need assistance navigating – wayfinding around the building. So, all of these three I think your certification could be really nicely integrated. It’s somewhere in between both BREEAM and WELL have some parts of accessibility portion. You know we need to provide the accessible toilets and accessible wayfinding but if you have something dedicated to this topic it fits perfectly well. And again, speaking from our developer standpoint, we need this objectivization let’s call it of the criteria how do we compare it, let’s say, to our competitors to other buildings. So, this is a perfect tool and there will be I predict I have a crystal ball right now but I predict that there is a very strong future even for your certification.
Miguel
Thank you, Martin.
Milan
Thank you very much. I see two questions. One is very similar to the topic that we are just speaking. It’s about comparison with other certification schemes: To which one is Access4you® the most similar. Is it BREEAM? Is it WELL? Is it FITWELL or new European sustainability reporting standards? This is I think something absolutely unique but complementing.
Tamás
Yes. We are only dealing with a very-very small portion of all these big schemes. That’s the reason that the management contribution from the principle is far less. So as long as LEED and BREEAM is a very complex requirement stuff, actually, and accessibility is a very small part of it, the principal has to deliver a lot of information. Here in our, and this is the answer for your prior question, if someone decides that I want to have Access4you® certificates it’s six-eight weeks max so after contracting and to deliver the final result. And the only contribution from the landlord is to give someone who is leading us through the building and basically that’s it. Everything is done by us. It’s a very objective, a very neutral data collection which further on will be analyzed and evaluated by us. So, we are completely independent. We value what we assess, what we see. So, basically this is the base for our analysis. And it’s very simple. And it really takes no more than one or max two days even in big and complex buildings. That’s the real work actually. Yeah.
Milan (54:00 How long does it take to became accredited professional of Access4you® and related benefits)
And the last question from audience or it was first one: How difficult is it to become acredited professional for sales of Access4you® trademark and for auditing individual project with Access4you® and how much time do candidates need to reserve for it. I think this is relevant when you are entering new market like Slovakia, because as Martin said we do not have nothing else than law at the moment. And the certification schemes touch it very-very lightly. So, and if we want to start certify your buildings and you are looking for candidates how long does it take.
Tamás
Luckily our business model is exactly answering this question. That we were ambitious at the beginning. We saw the answer for this global problem on earth that there is lack of information and we created our answers in a way that it’s able to be copy past. So, we wanted to be a standard all over the world. And actually our or we can deliver the growth and be present everywhere through accredited partners. We have an e-learning staff, an accreditation system with e-learning staff and the exam and today we split it in two different chapters, because there is a let’s say a sales part. And to be become an auditor it requires a bit more learning and knowledge to learn: Our admin tool software, how it works. The sales accreditation is for free because it’s in order, it’s for the mission that we want to grow the presence of this mission everywhere. The accreditation part, I would say that if someone is really keen to do it, it can be done in a few weeks. We see that it’s only dependent on the appetite of the potential partner. It really doesn’t take so long. By the admin. So in the audit we require a pilot project. Some building should be in seen a proof surroundings. Actually, it is not the hot database. Something can be measured by themselves and we are helping a lot. Our chief auditor or the staff – we are helping to learn it. And we also suggest that once you are an accredited partner we are also helping by the start. So, probably the first sharp audit we can have by phone or to be there present. Actually, Sovakia is a neighbour country. So, we can help you even on this learning by doing so on the site if necessary. So, I really encourage the audience or the person who raised the question to join us.
Milan
Thank you, thank you very much. It sounds very interesting. Is language a problem? Is it delivered in in English. Because projects normally if you are doing design phase are in Sloven language, yeah? Or the language where you want to certify the project. Is this an issue?
Tamás
Actually, the software works today in English. But I think that in this level everyone understands. So, it is not so difficult to use it. This is particularly for the building. So basically, we have two different accreditations for the audit. And for the design phase it is a bit more difficult. And it costs more today. The accreditation fee for two years it’s 1200 euro for a company. For an individual is 600 euro that includes a unlimited use of our software as well. So, they can audit hundreds of buildings within this two years period for that fee. So, it is also an available, let’s say value or price for it. The audit is a bit more difficult. That requires some engineering pre-life let’s say. Or some experience. Or you need to learn a bit more. But that part which can be audited on the plans is the same as in the life. And all the rest the local language is much better that if you have to discuss it with an architect it’s probably better in Slovak language. But you will know that what you have to ask there.
Milan
Yeah. That’s very good that the local people can become accredited because they speak the language.
Tamás
Absolutely.
Milan
Thank you very much! It was really-really good discussion. I have very good feeling about it. Let me wish you all a very nice day and really- really very much thank you!
Tamás, Miguel
Thank you very much for the invitation. Thank you, Milan! Thank you, Martin! See you,
Martin
Thank you! Bye
